REVELATION 31 – WAR IN HEAVEN

            We are in Revelation 12. We talked last week about the great sign that appeared in heaven. 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; (2) and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth. We talked about how this is representative particularly of Israel who was the woman, the bride of God, twelve stars - twelve tribes, and that out of Israel came the Son. We also pointed out that this may have to do with the zodiac. Not astrology in that sense, but that God does speak to us in the stars and we talked about that pretty extensively.

            Then in verse 3 - (3) And another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. (4) And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child. We didn’t get around to talking about what this sign represents. It is a sign in heaven - the great red dragon which is Satan. If you look down at verse 9 -  And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; He was thrown down to the earth and his angels were thrown down with him. We talked a little bit about that last week, about the fact that what’s very likely being talked about here is the life and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That whole milieu is what’s in view here. I said last week that we tend to think linearly, but the Bible doesn’t always do that. The Hebrew mind set did not necessarily think about things in sequence. The Bible sometimes talks about things that are sequential as one event. I think that may be what’s in view here.

(6) And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. Obviously, this is speaking of Christ. She gave birth to a male, he is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, that’s very, very clear in the Old Testament and in the New. It talks about Christ shepherding, the word there by the way is actually “to shepherd”, but to rule all of the nations with a rod of iron indicating that he is the great shepherd and yet he is Lord. He rule is absolute.

What does it mean when it says her child was caught up to God and to His throne? Jesus’ ascension into heaven. It’s talking about His resurrection and His ascension. Her child was caught up to God and to His throne. We read in other places in the Bible that Jesus was ‘caught up’ in the clouds and He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. We read that in the Apostles’ Creed this morning. We believe that He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father.

We talked a little bit last week about (6) … the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she might be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days. Again, 1,260 days is also 3 ½ years and 42 months. When you look at a Jewish calendar it’s either 42 months, 3 ½ years or 1260 days. I pointed out that Israel fled into the wilderness. When God saved them out of Egypt, out of bondage, they went into the wilderness. God provided for them in the wilderness. He provided not only the manna, He provided quail. They got upset because they didn’t have any meat to eat anymore. So God said ‘OK. You want meat I’ll give you meat.’ And it was running out their nostrils, they were overwhelmed with quail, with the blessing of God so they were saying ‘that’s enough God!” While they were in the wilderness they camped in 42 places. Isn’t that incredible! When you look at the fact that they were in the wilderness 1,260 days and they were actually there 40 years, but there were 42 encampments. So there’s a correlation here.

Q: So you’re saying that this is not necessarily chronological order, obviously.

A: Yes. It’s obviously talking about two things. One, it’s obviously talking about Israel who was the woman with twelve stars in her crown, twelve tribes in Israel, and it’s obviously talking about Israel’s fleeing into the wilderness and God’s providing provisions for Israel in the wilderness. And yet, as I said last week, it may also be talking about the sign in the stars, in the zodiac. Remember Virgo that has twelve stars in her crown was in position in the stars during the birth of Jesus Christ. The sun was in the midst of Virgo at that point for 2 ½ hours or something. The moon was at the feet of Virgo on September 11, 3 bc. That very likely is the time when Christ was born. People who study those things have gone back and looked at all of that.

Q: That I would have assumed that it would stay in chronological order and say OK it sounds like Israel but I would be inclined to think this must be the apostles and it must be the church.

A: It may very well have some of that connotation of the apostles and the church.

Q: If it did , how would it be?

A: Remember later on it talks about the church as the bride of Christ and it was built upon the foundation of the twelve apostles. So you see all of these things coming together. Again, we tend to think linear when we read this. We tend to start at Revelation 1 and think that Revelation 12 is after Revelation 11, and Revelation 13 is after Revelation 12. But that’s not the way the Bible works in many cases, that’s not the situation. Clearly here there are several things going on in this description of the woman, the great sign in heaven. So we need to broaden our horizons. We need to understand the Old Testament background and see how that correlates.

Q: I don’t want to cast you off on that tangent again, but I understand that God is outside of time, but there has to be an order. When prophecy is given and then it’s fulfilled after, there is some kind of order and there has to be some kind of importance to that. So, however you want to describe it, things happen one after another and that’s very important.

A: In our world Jody is right. Jody has pointed out that things happen linearly in our world because we are temporal creatures. We are bound by time. In a prophecy, the prophet prophecies, and the event happens sometime later. Otherwise, we could not depend that what the prophet said was true. But what we need to understand is when we’re reading the Bible, Revelation 12 doesn’t necessarily come after Revelation 11. As I pointed out last week, when you read through the Old Testament it says ‘these are the generations of’ and then it will go through a generation. Then it will go back and go through that same period of time talking about the events that happened to those people.

Q: I’d like to ask Jody a quick question. Would you say if you’re thinking of God’s attributes… because I’m struggling like this. I think all of us are. I’m thinking yeah in our terms we see things as God has intended for us to see things linear. But when we think in terms of God’s attributes, do you agree that He could not possibly be limited by this. He’s not limited by anything… so time or sequences … He can’t be… But there’s still some kind of order in heaven because Satan was able to go up into heaven and accuse people in front of God, and now he’s not.

A: Jody is talking about the events in Job when Satan comes before God in heaven. Again, we need to understand that we are temporal creatures and the Bible speaks to us in terms that we can understand. But God is not bound by time. God knew before He said let there be light, when each of us was going to be saved, He knew that I was going to stick my hand up in the air just now, He knows every hair on my head, He knows all the stars, He knows their courses, He knows the names of them all, He knows every cell in my body and what’s going on in it at each moment in time, and every other moment in history. All at once. As if it were all happening at once, He knows that because He’s outside of time. Yes my body works differently. My heart pumps boom, boom, boom, boom. But to God all of that is present, simultaneously. So we cannot even comprehend that and the Bible clearly says God is so far above us we can’t comprehend it. We are temporal creatures. We are time bound. God is not. When we read passages like this in Revelation 12, what we need to understand is that it’s not necessarily time sequenced. It is not necessarily talking about one event. It may be talking about several different things i.e. It’s talking about Israel, the fact that Christ was born from Israel. It may be talking about the fact that Virgo was in a certain position and a certain alignment with the planets and the sun and the moon at the same time. It is also talking about Israel being in the wilderness supported by God. It’s also talking about the fact that Christ came out of the Old Testament church and formed the New Testament church. So all of these things. We’ve got to understand that Scripture is so rich and as we begin mining the depths of it, as we begin peeling the onion, it just gets bigger and bigger.

Q: I don’t want to make trouble for you but if we’re in heaven and we’re praising God and saying Jesus was slain for us, we’ll be referring to a past tense thing.

A: We’re temporal creatures and always will be.

Q: But even in heaven we’ll praise Jesus saying you died for me.

A: Absolutely because we are creatures, not the creator. We are still time bound. Satan is a creature and is time bound. God is not.

C: I was going to say that a crisper, sort of thing to focus on is that if God is outside time, I think that’s great, but we are time bound and when God makes revelations to man in the form of prophecy, it is usually to witness to His glory and to His plan. For example in Daniel he gives a time sequence. So the question I think would be, was the passage of Scripture we’re looking at, was that particular passage intended as a prophetic sequence of events. There are definitely passages like that in Scripture, intended for that, or what time order is it because that’s the prophecy, that’s the sign. So we don’t really want to say that doesn’t exist.

R: Yes. We have to remember when we’re reading the Bible and you’ve heard Bob say this over and over, look for the time clues. When it says ‘there was war in heaven, that’s a time clue. That’s a time word. It goes on to say: (9) And the great dragon was thrown down That’s a time word. It means that something happened in history. (10) And I heard a loud voice (past tense) in heaven, saying “Now…  That’s a time word. So look for the time clues.  But also recognize, that, although this is referring to a particular event because there are time words here, it’s also referring to the background of Israel in the desert. It may also be referring to the alignment of the stars. Realize that Scripture is so much more rich than just the words we read. That’s what I want you to get out of this.

It goes on to say: (9) And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. (10) And I heard a loud voice (past tense) in heaven, saying “Now (that’s a time word. So look for the time clues. 

Then we get down to verse 7:  12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael  and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war, Very likely this is Jesus. The name Michael means ‘who is like God.’ So very probably what we’re seeing here is that it is Christ that is in view. It is Christ and his angels waging war with the dragon.(8) and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

Q: Is there any other reference as to any other Michael as an angel in his own right in Scripture?

A: Yes but it can also be seen as Christ. Michael - the name means “who is like God.” Chilton points out It occurs elsewhere in the Scriptures only in Daniel and Jude. Michael is portrayed in Daniel as the great prince who stands as the special protector of the people of God. War breaks out in heaven between the good and evil angels and even Gabriel is unable to overcome the demons until Michael comes to do battle with the enemy, Daniel 10:12-13, 20-21. In view of what is revealed about Michael in the latter part of Daniel 10, it is likely that the otherwise unexplained vision in the first part of the chapter refers to him as well. Then he talks about Daniel saw a man dressed in linen, and there is a description there that is very clearly talking about Jesus Christ. The closing passage of Daniel’s prophecy refers to Michael as the guardian over God’s people who will arise to fight in their behalf during the time of great tribulation, Daniel 12:1. Michael’s name does not appear again in the Bible until an offhanded mention by Jude who tells us that he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, Jude 9. Jude also calls him the archangel. Archangel means the leading. Archon is the Greek work meaning leading or chief. So it simply means the chief of the angels, an expression equivalent to the captain of the Lord’s Hosts, which Jesus is called in Joshua. This would also tend to identify Michael with the Angel of the Lord. We tend to think because I’m Dave Crenshaw and there is a Dave Campbell, and there is a Dave this and Dave that, we tend to see names as identifying a particular person. The name is a label identifying that particular person. In Scripture, what we need to realize is that names are not necessarily just identifying a particular individual. The names identify the attribute. His name is Wonderful. His name is Counselor. His name is Mighty God. His name is Prince of Peace. His name is Michael. All of those have to do with the attributes of the person. See the Hebrews didn’t use names as we do; like a label. They tended to use names as a description of the attributes. Now they did when the child was born it was obviously given a name. But that name was not necessarily simply a label, particularly in Scripture. That name had something to do with their attributes.

Q: Do you know where it is in Scripture where someone was talking to an angel and it says can’t you see that my name is wonderful?

A: I don’t remember that. I remember what you’re saying, but I’m drawing a blank.

Q: What would it do to where you’re coming from if Michael is in fact a person of personality, a real person? Would it really change anything?

A: No. If Michael were a created angelic being, it wouldn’t change much. The Bible still is very clear that there was war in heaven and Michael, if it’s talking about a created being, and his angels were waging war with the dragon, he would still be under the direction of Jesus Christ and God. He’s still an agent of Christ.

Q: I’m having a little bit of trouble with it. I have a sister who is a Jehovah Witness. Don’t they believe the archangel Michael is Jesus?

A: I’m not familiar with that, and I’ve studied Jehovah Witness’ extensively and also Mormonism. But what I think we need to understand there is the Mormon’s believe Jesus Christ is the offspring of Adam and Mary, and that Jesus Christ is also the brother of Satan. That’s the reason Satan is in the world doing all the bad things is because he is upset because he wasn’t picked to be the savior. That’s Mormon theology for you.

Again, I’m trying to expand your mind here. I’m not saying definitively Michael is Jesus Christ. I’m saying that because the name means ‘who is like God.’ Because of what Daniel says about Michael. Because of what Jude says about Michael. Because the world archangel is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 where Christ descends in the second coming with a shout with the voice of the archangel. So it’s probably not a separate being that’s being talked about there shouting. It’s Christ himself who is descending with a shout. He is coming in judgment. He himself shouts with the archangelic voice as Chilton says.

            By the way, going back to Jude where it says Michael disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, he’s probably not talking about the physical remains of Moses. Is there another possibility when we talk about the body of Moses? The Law of Moses. The body of the teaching of Moses. So when he says the body of Moses, Jude probably means the Old Testament covenant community. They were the body of Moses, just as we are the body of Christ. The equivalent of the body of Christ. The houses of Moses. So that’s what the dispute was about. It wasn’t over where are we going to bury Moses, or what are we going to do with his physical body. What very likely Jude is talking about there is that Satan was disputing trying to infiltrate the church, the body of Moses. The believers who were part of the Old Testament covenant.

Q: I have a question about the Michael and Jesus relation. It says here that ‘Even Michael the Archangel didn’t dare bring an accusation against Satan.’ It said the Lord rebuked him.

A: Yes. This is one reason that people like the Jehovah Witnesses’ and Mormons don’t believe that Jesus is God. Jesus says ‘I pray to the Father.’ Why in the world would God pray to himself? If Michael is Jesus, why would it say that Michael was afraid to bring a dispute against Satan? Because I think it’s talking in terms of the incarnate Christ, it’s not talking in terms of Christ as God. Scripture  very clearly says at one point that Christ could do no miracles because of their unbelief. So what we see are those things that have to do with his humanity, those kinds of ideas and again I’m not prepared to discuss all that because I didn’t intend to get into all that.

Q: What about the doctrine of kenosis?

A: I’m not going to really get into all that, but that says that when Jesus emptied himself, and became a man, he voluntarily got rid of his Godly attributes, the incommunicable attributes if you will.

Q: You can’t explain that in a minute or less?

A: No.

Q: What does it mean when David in the Psalms said ‘the Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I put all of your enemies under your feet.”

A: What they’re talking about there, and Jesus brings this up in the New Testament and we hear that also in Hebrews, it’s talking about the fact that although Jesus was God, he was Lord, he was also a descendant in the human realm of David. So David says to My Lord, Jesus Christ was his Lord because he was God, but he was also his son because he was human. He was descended out of the tribe of David, out of the tribe of Judah.

            Again, I’m not saying definitively that Michael is Christ, just posing that that’s a possibility here. There was war in heaven. We see this struggle throughout the Bible. God created, and God created a covenant community and Satan is trying to create. He’s trying to create a false community. That’s why you hear things like ‘the Brotherhood of Man.’ The ungodly talk about we’re all brothers. Well now, we’re not. We’re brothers in Christ with other Christians, but we are not brothers with those who are descendants of Satan. We have no fellowship with them. Paul says what fellowship has light with dark? We are as different from them as anything imaginable. Now the problem is we don’t know whether some of them are going to become Christians or not, so we can’t say get away from me you’re an ungodly person. No. We build bridges and we give them the gospel in hope that they are a lost sheep, they will come in to the covenant community. That’s part of the war that we see.

            (9) And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; Satan is a deceiver. Satan is an accuser. Satan takes what God has done, puts a little bit of a twist on it, and tries to pass it off as Biblical. How many of you have read The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis? I read The Screwtape Letters and thought it was a great book! It’s a series of letters between a demon, Screwtape to his protégé Wormwood. Satan is involved in this. There are parts of it where Satan is saying things and Screwtape is quoting Satan. I went through and read the book and it’s just marvelous. It’s incredible when you read it. Then I went back and I read the first part of it which blew my mind. Because in it, C.S. Lewis says you have to remember everything Satan says is a lie. So when you read The Screwtape Letters you have to understand that everything Satan is saying in that book is a lie! That’s what we need to understand in this world. Everything that is not Biblical, is a lie. It’s from Satan. It may sound really good, because there’s some little element of truth there, there’s some portion that Satan takes and twists just enough so that it’s not true.

(10) And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now (again this is a time word) the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night. When is the “now”?

Q: When Satan gets thrown down here a long time ago or at his defeat at the cross?

A: I think it’s a long time ago for us because it was at the defeat at the cross.

Q: Right because I’ve often thought that there was the time in heaven when he was cast down, then there was the time of his defeat at the cross.

A: Yes, but what we see, and we talked a little bit about this last week. Remember the disciples, the seventy went out and they did all these miracles in Jesus’ name and they came back and they were so excited and said ‘Lord, even the demons are subject to us.’ And what did Jesus say? I saw Satan falling from heaven. So I think what we’re seeing here is that the “Now”, and that’s a time word, time clue, , “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, When was that? When Satan was thrown down. During the life and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That’s when Satan was thrown down. It’s not some future time after some cataclysmic war in heaven as the pre-millennial interpretation of Revelation is. It’s the fact that Satan was struggling to keep that child from being born by the woman with twelve stars in her crown. He was trying everything he could think of to keep the Christ child from being born out of the tribe of Judah, in the nation of Israel. That’s what you see throughout the Old Testament, Satan attempting to prevent that event from occurring, and yet God used every circumstance and turned it around for His own good so that Satan was defeated. Even as he thought he had everything altogether. Now, he still is the Prince of this world. He has been defeated, but he doesn’t think he has. He is still fighting on. He believes, he is deranged as it were, and he believes he can still win, even though he knows he really can’t. He goes around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour. He’s really trying to overcome.

C: He really has no power like he had before to a believer.

R: Absolutely not. Satan can use circumstances to influence Christians. He can use the effects of our old sinful nature to tempt us. But Satan cannot be directly involved in any Christian’s life. How can light coexist with darkness?

Q: In the parable of the strongman, do you recall the order of events in that? He comes and plunders his house…

A: Yes. Jesus said the strongman must be bound before his house can be plundered and I think Jesus very clearly is talking about the fact that Satan now is bound and that’s what we see in Revelation. Jesus is plundering his realm now. Jesus is plundering the realm of Satan which is this world. He is seeking out the lost sheep and Satan is bound not in the sense that he has no ability, he’s not in chains where he can’t move. His power has been bound to the extent that he doesn’t have the ability he had before Christ came. When you read the New Testament you see that people had demons. While there may be some cases of that now for the ungodly, you don’t see that to the extent that you see it in the New Testament. Because Satan’s power has been bound. Jesus Christ bound him by the Word, by the incarnate Word. The fact that the Word has gone out into all the world. The fact that we have the Scriptures. That fact that there is a church. The fact that we can tell other people. Every indication that you can think of speaks to the fact that now Satan’s power has been restrained, and the message of Christ is going out into the world.

(11) “And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb…” Who is the ‘they?’ It says 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael  and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war, (8) and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. (9) And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. (10) And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them (our brethren) before our God day and night. “They” refers to the brethren. We need to understand that the ‘they’ refers back, the pronoun refers back to the first noun. So the they then refers to our brethren. Our brethren overcame Satan. Our brethren overcame him (11)… because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even to death. Who’s being spoken of particularly here? Our brethren, but what kind? The martyrs. I think very clearly this is talking about the first century martyrs who were standing up for Christ and preaching the word of God in spite of the fact that they were being killed because of it. And they overcame Satan not by what they did, but because of the blood of the Lamb, because Jesus Christ was sacrificed and because of the word of their testimony. You see that’s what you hear me over and over again say, our testimony is important.

            and they did not love their life even to death. Even if we were placed in a situation where we would die if we refuse to speak of Christ, we must speak of Christ. There’s an incredible illustration that is supposed to be true, I don’t know if it is or not. Back in the days of the Communist Party in Soviet Russia there was a church meeting in secret in one of the Eastern Block countries, and the church doors burst open in the middle of the service and there were several armed guards with machine guns. They said, ‘OK. We’re here to kill everyone who is really a believer in Jesus Christ. If you’re here and you don’t really believe in Jesus Christ, or if you want to leave then you may leave and we’ll kill everyone else.” A lot of people got up and left. There were a few people left and they said, “OK. Now we can worship. We’re brothers in Christ and we just wanted to make sure that there were only real Christians here.” You see what they understood was that if you’re willing to face death and say you’re a Christian, then you’re truly a Christian. If you’re not willing to face death, then you need to think about where you stand with Jesus Christ.

(12) For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea; because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time. That’s why Satan is prowling about like a roaring lion. He knows that he has only a short time, and he disregards it. Just like we were talking about this morning. He knows in his head, but it’s not affecting his behavior. He still thinks ‘I can do this.’ But John says, For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them because Jesus Christ has overcome, because we’ve overcome through the blood of the Lamb we need to rejoice because people are willing to stand up and proclaim Christ.

            Woe to the earth and the sea; because the devil has come down to you, We need to realize even though Jesus Christ is the victor, even though Jesus Christ has won the victory, even though in God’s reality we are seated at the right hand of God the Father, yet we are in this sinful world and Satan and his minions are in this world trying to tempt us. Trying to overcome us and he has great wrath because he realizes that the time of the end is near. So we’re going to suffer in this world. We’re going to suffer by Satan trying to tempt us, and we’re going to suffer because we’re in a sinful world, we’re going to suffer because of the effects of our sinful nature, but we need to realize that God has overcome and in His reality the victory is already won.

C: I want to point out in verse 8 where it says , and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. (9) And the great dragon was thrown down…  If that didn’t happen at the crucifixion, then it happened say before the fall of Adam and Eve, then Satan wouldn’t be able to be up there during Job.

R: Yes, and I haven’t really studied that. Again, we can look at what Jesus says in Luke when he says to the seventy I saw Satan falling from heaven, and recognize that it was again that whole event. Not one event, but the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Bible sees as the crowing glory, as it were. That was the event that cast Satan down from heaven and defeated him.